PROBLEMS WITH NATURAL LAW.... (archiving an old post and thoughts...)

 

The following is from an old post I made in a private group, September 2019:

Problems with “natural law”

If you are not prepared to read through ALL of this and seriously contemplate/question your beliefs or feel like the folks putting forth these ideas can’t be questioned then you need to go back to the fucking drawing board, because you haven’t learned shit. Most of us came out of religious mindsets (multiple times in fact). It’s about time we stop following someone like a guru, only limiting our info to one person/viewpoint and not questioning what they are saying. The “truther” world has its own evangelists just like religion. Now I actually have learned from and appreciate some aspects of certain people’s work, but I will not get fully invested and put my 100% trust in one person or ideology.

Rant over, now read on if you care to:

 

DEFINITIONS FOR NATURAL LAW ARE MULTIPLE AND CONTRADICTORY.

Just do a google search and you’ll get these two off the bat which do not jive.

1. a body of *unchanging* moral principles regarded as a basis for all human conduct. [keep “unchanging” in mind. We will come back to that.]

2. an observable law relating to *natural* phenomena.

——

Ok, so I actually like SOME of the morality/ethics ideas that some people are labeling “natural law” but my problem is calling them “natural law.” nature is not a guide for morals or ethics.

But, but, but that’s not what natural law means....

Keep reading. We will get there.

 

I’ve heard some people say natural law is having to do with the way we perceive that the universe/reality operates, which would go with definition 2... but still that’s not having anything to do with morality or ethics.

 

Common sense definition, “natural” = relating to nature.

 

The point here is that there are multiple groups using the term with different meanings.

I’ve asked 4 people with no connection to the “truth movement” what came to mind when they heard this term. They basically said “law of the jungle, dog eat dog.” And that IS nature. It’s brutal. Nature is not a source for morality.

 

“Natural law theory” as put forth by Thomas Aquinas is a legal theory / moral philosophy based A LOT in religious ideas. That alone surprises me because so many people who have left organized religion wanna latch onto this system. I’ve seen some things say natural law is supposedly not about nature, but “nature’s god.” Ok, how is that any different? Are we making an assumption to know that there is a nature’s god and what nature’s god views as moral? Is there just one? How do we know there not multiple gods? How would we know? If it’s nature’s god, wouldn’t the creation reflect the creator? I mean how would you get your info on what “nature’s god” determines? by observing nature, right? Well, back to previous comments I made on nature.

———

This is another definition I’ve heard:

“Do the least harm possible to survive.”

Or

“Do no harm, take no shit.”

I like these thoughts.

BUT again— is this reflected in “nature?” Nope.

 

Why did they call it natural law? Why didn’t they call it Thomas Aquinas law, or something else which could not be confused? You say you follow “natural law” ... well so do the psychopaths. Their definition of those words is not the same.

 

Back to claims of natural law being “unchanging” and also completely objective:

Ok, so it’s wrong to kill others. But what if someone is trying to hurt you, or someone else? What if killing one person would save 1000? So then killing someone would be acceptable, right?

 

Definitions

Subjective: based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.

Objective: not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts. [I would argue this is impossible really. Everything we do/think goes through the filters of our own perceptions, programming, experiences, environment, etc. there is no way for something to be 100% objective!]

——

So to sum up,

I like a lot of the moral guidelines that some people want to call natural law.

I do not like the terminology bc I feel it is highly misleading and it can be used with totally opposite understandings. I do not understand why others who are aware of how language is used to manipulate and confuse don’t get this. I thought we were not a fan of confusing legal terminology anyway....?

 

We need to be honest with the fact that these are all rules and ideas that have been concocted by HUMAN MINDS to construct and maintain societies.

 

I hope this has all been clear enough. I’ve tried to piece together various thoughts/comments and it’s a little tough to do on my phone.

 

 

--later thoughts/comments on the post--

 

Someone had commented on my original post regarding the 7 hermetic principles being natural law.

This was my response:

I think the hermetic principles get us closer... I am not sure they are without holes either though. Idk if anything is airtight so it might be about choosing what makes the most sense and what can get you the closest, which may be hermetic principles... idk I try to tear everything apart. A lot of people don’t like that but I can’t help it. Lol!

 

-----

 

I think it’s a man made construct no matter what. All these things are ideas people have come up with. That’s not saying they’re all bad, but we just gotta recognize stuff for what it is and that it’s limited to our perception / awareness / knowledge as a human. I have a big problem now with ascribing anything to a god as far as rules or that kind of thing. So many problems have been caused by people claiming god said this or wants that. I think we just need to examine things, discuss pros and cons and try to choose what is most beneficial and helpful. Sometimes that changes depending on the circumstances.

I think the term “law” is problematic too.

The only definition of “natural law” that might work for me is just the way nature operates. Sun, moon, planets, Seasons. But even then, we don’t know much for sure about those things. Ex: we cant even agree on what shape this place is.. have the sun, moon, stars always been the same or are going to eternally be the same? Idk.. so i wouldn’t call it “law.”

The way of nature... The Tao..

 

-----

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veil_of_Isis

The veil of Isis is a metaphor and allegorical artistic motif in which nature is personified as the goddess Isis covered by a veil or mantle, representing the inaccessibility of nature's secrets.

 

For now that’s basically where I am. I don’t know that we can know, but I’ll keep looking! Lol

 

-----

 

We don’t *know* that life/energy is eternal.

 

We don’t *know* if there is a beginning / end or not.

 

“Time” is a construct as in the way we count years, hours, days. No calendar is exact to cycles that seem to be observable and the cycles may not even be consistent.

 

I don’t know that I believe in vibration alignment stuff anymore or know that we choose to come here. Why would we choose to go through all this shit? To grow? To what end? Are we all sadists who are gluttons for punishment? What’s the purpose? Nobody knows. The theory that we are all god that wanted to get lost in matter is interesting but at the end of the day it is one theory of many. The vibration, choosing to come here stuff is similar to law of attraction ideas. Well I know of two bank tellers in my area who were gunned down at point blank range. They chose that? They weren’t operating on the right frequency? They attracted that guy to come kill them?

 

To have total free will you have to have the knowledge of all the possibilities that are available. I don’t believe we do. We have limited knowledge that we use to make choices.

 

I don’t know that I buy all is “god” anymore either. We have this thing where we are all god or we are all human or this certain thing will happen to us all when we die. Like there is some set way things always have to be. Maybe there are many, many variations? I don’t know. 

 

We are all contributing to this reality but maybe there are other entities we aren’t aware of that are affecting things. Maybe we are some alien experiment or there was something that created this place and us. I don’t know. I do think we should take responsibility and try to do the best that we can but at the same time you can live a decent life like I understood those two ladies to have done and get gunned down one day. On a smaller level I was trying to do martial arts and other stuff to replace the church aspect I had lost and it was helping me physically and mentally. Then my back got screwed up and it’s greatly affected my life for well over a year now.. So one step forward, two steps back.

 

Anyway, just random thoughts. We are all working out exactly what we believe and trying to figure out ourselves and this environment.

 

 

Venting at God... again.

Today I said in a group "I need a detox from life." Someone asked if I was ok and I said no, and blurted out a bunch of shit about previous struggles, current bullshit on planet earth, depression and surviving a suicide attempt 10 years ago, feeling brain fog, etc. like those times, etc.  Yeah.. I know. TMI. But. RIGHT AFTER I did that, I see this meme.

It just made me cry which was the catharsis I needed. And I got a nice long hug from my husband.

Anyway, there was a discussion in the group about venting and screaming at god, etc. Which reminded me of a time before when I had screamed at god and had something very surreal happen..

I used to deliver mail back when I was going through a very bad divorce. Life was just getting to me hard. I was basically having a screaming fest with God while I was delivering. I was saying things like:

When will I have my day in the sun?

When will I be loved?

When will I be happy?

So I let all kinds of stuff out then stopped at this mailbox. (Local associate pastor's house) Sat there for a minute. Wiped my eyes & let out a big exhale. Opened the mailbox door and there was a note in there. All I could see at first was the outside. it said “thank you for the mail” .. obviously kid writing. Then I open it up and see the sun, hearts and crosses. Then I broke down again! Hah! Thought I was dreaming. 

So if that wasn’t crazy enough, a couple years went by and I decided to watch the live stream since I had not been to church or listened to a service in a long while...

The associate pastor was speaking that day which was rare. So I'm sitting there drinking my coffee and all of a sudden he starts talking about ME (not by name)...... and this day in 2010 when his child left this for me in their mailbox.  She said it HAD to go in the mailbox that day. I happened to be subbing on the route. I had known that the box was that pastor’s house but I didn’t know he had even known about what had happened, yet here he was telling the story. Guess one of my fb friends had relayed it to him.

My beliefs have changed, and I've said "god" / "the universe" / whatever you want to call it can speak to you in whatever method you need.

Collection of Random Thoughts on Religion

Random thoughts I've had regarding religion over the past few years...

Will come back and update as I find more.

*****

July 12, 2018

The abrahamic religions and their “sacred texts” are the biggest black magick spell ever perpetrated on humanity.... as is any ideology which says it cannot be questioned!

You don’t need a book to know that it’s wrong to harm others. It is recorded in those books that people knew/walked with “God” and knew how to live righteously in times before the words were committed to paper!

There are many people who follow these religions and their texts who are still in fact shitty people and actually justify their actions with the texts! They completely ignore or make excuses for the disgusting passages contained within. 

The “sacred texts” are idols of paper.... contradictory, bi-polar ones at that.... no wonder the world is so fucked.

Spiritual Awakening and the Fool

What is “spiritual awakening?”

[my assessment]

Seeing through some bullshit, then realizing it’s pretty much all bullshit!

Having your mind turned inside out and realizing you’re cohabitating a realm with schizophrenic psychopaths... but don’t worry, you’re a little schizo yourself!

You go through phases of wanting to “wake people up” or expose things until you realize that most everyone doesn’t give a shit. At first this irritates the shit out of you, then you can’t blame them. 

At each toll point you think you’ve got the truth, until you dig a little deeper and poke holes in that too. You finally realize you’re dealing with primarily lies. Lies on top of lies. You’re basically choosing one person’s words and ideas over another which are, for the most part, impossible to prove. 

It becomes impossible to tell who are the “good guys.” You may just be a “useful idiot” yourself, helping along the system you think you’re tearing down. You don’t know if you’re better off than when you were asleep.

Welcome to the fool’s journey.

You start out in ignorant bliss, then you end up knowing that nobody (including yourself) knows anything.

Absurdism and pragmatism are my current coordinates.

Magick...

What is magick?

I feel like “magick” is not exactly what people think it is. I think it’s basically “manipulation” and that word does not necessarily mean in a bad way. It means “skillful handling.” Manipulation of energy, especially with words and imagery... various forms of communication. Some of it is about programming your subconscious mind in various ways, power of intention to cause change... and of course it can be used to change others as well... some people use some extreme measures that I myself do not personally agree with. I would say that everyone is doing “magick” whether they realize it or not. A lot of Christian stuff is “magick” by another name and they are just oblivious. A quote I now find to be true: “religion is magick for the masses, magick is religion for the individual.” By studying these things you can see how and when people are manipulating you or others for good or ill plain as day... and maybe become aware of how you were doing things you didn’t even realize. —

I listened to a review of the GOT tarot and the person said Little Finger as the magician didn’t make sense. The way I view it, it’s perfect. He was a “skillful handler” for sure. The magician card is associated with Mercury and Mercury is also associated with the little finger of the hand.

Gnostic & Esoteric Symbolism in "The Last Fight" by Velvet Revolver

LYRICS:
Time feels like I've been back in jail
Like when I was doing time but in the can
Spend all night on a bended knee
Just to beg for something to believe
Left home with a pack of clothes without a family tree [reference to fool card, 0?]

This fight could be the last fight
No giving and no winning
One time could be the all the time
Should we decide to end the misery

Time heals all of the burned out bridges
Filled with nothing more than misery
I wear the mask of the embattled son
Trying to beg for something to believe
Left home with a pack of clothes without a family tree

Break the chains of featherweights and giants
With disdain for everlasting liars
They're afraid when we spit out the fire
And start living my friend [that prayer?]

(Who will answer my prayer?)

------------------------

VIDEO:
The video begins with a storm brewing and a battle cadence.  Interestingly the etymology of the word cadence means "to fall" and they always played these before battles....
Scott sits at a table dressed in a white shirt, possibly a symbol of purity/truth.
He writes in a book and seals it up with multiple layers.

The semi-nude woman opens the book called "The Last Fight" (Armageddon) and begins to read and starts crying.  She removes the purple ring.  
 
Possible correlations to the ring include wisdom similar to "the pearl of great price", the ring is symbolic of marriage and Purple as the balance of masculine (red) and feminine (blue) aspects of unity, so she is now in an unbalanced state, a fall from wisdom.

She puts on the red battle jacket (red-fiery, masculine, mars energy) and leaves.

Scott is back at the piano in white again, seeing what the girl is doing.

Notice the guitars here - White on the left, Black on the right, Black & white similar to a Taoist yin yang symbol in the middle.

Center guitar player's vest has skull & crossbones (symbol for poison, omen of impending doom), and he is wearing a cross necklace, death & resurrection... also maybe both symbols of crossroads (decision to make).. also memento mori, remember death.
 
We view a room with many chairs, which then have red blindfolds appear on them. Various people come in and take their seats but it looks like they are almost going through her or maybe she's invisible to them.

All those different people may be symbolic of collective cult mentality/brainwashing across various religions/cultures. The other people's clothing looks black & white, dull...
 
The other people put on red blindfolds - spiritual blindness, operating under the masculine, mars, fiery energy,, imbalanced.

All the people except the girl are blind and "drinking the koolaid/flavoraid." She gets up and walks out carrying the book and a rosary with a cross (spiritual death/resurrection).

All the people are coming down the steps, they don't have their blindfolds anymore, Perhaps this symbolic of them dying -- going into the underworld and waiting for another reincarnation cycle.  Physical death opposed to her spiritual death & resurrection?

The girl comes back to the original room, puts the purple ring back on and takes off the battle jacket.
She stands next to the piano... the G key is pressed down... (GNOSIS/GENERATIVE POWER/GREAT ARCHITECT OF THE UNIVERSE - in freemasonry).  A rose shows on the piano and opens up... a symbol of wisdom/illumination, balance, love, ...

The G key is below the rose (sub rosa - under the rose = secrecy)
The drummer puts the battle drum down and walks away.